What do you think about this?

[nomoredrama]

I have posted a couple of threads about my friend and her ex-DH. If you missed it, here is one of the threads:
bmdforum.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=146

My friend and I had a discussion last week about her ex-DH. Her ex-DH used to pay my friend $1,400 per month in child support (2 children). When my friend moved back to her home state, her ex-DH reviewed the child support because now he had to visit the kids each month. Child support was reduced to $1,000 per month to account for his travel expenses.

Here is some more history: My friend moved back to her home state and lives with her sister. She had to come back home because she got into a financial bind. She was dependent on her ex-DH's child support check but he was laid off from his job and the child support stopped. He then got on unemployment but his unemployment check was only $1,200 per month. He paid her $600 per month of the unemployment. While waiting for a job offer, her ex began selling mens suits. The job paid like $8.00/hour plus commissions. He managed to pay her still $600 per month. When he found a better paying job, he began paying her $1,400 per month again. But he took her back to court to reduce the child support as his new job paid him $12,000 per year less than what he was paid at the job he was laid off from. But because she was SOOOO dependent on his child support check, when he fell on hard times, she suffered too. For example, she was paying the rent with his $1400 child support check. When he was laid off, she could not afford to pay her rent.

Anyway, her ex-DH called her last month & told her that he had found a job in the same state with she & the kids. He & his new wife decided to move to her state so that he can be closer to his children. He was supposed to get the kids for 6 weeks this summer but my friend told him that because he was moving in the same state, he should see the kids every other weekend. Her ex-DH reluctantly agreed since he was going to be busy trying to find a home for he & his wife. Well, my friend then asked her ex-DH to pay her more money for the kids summer care since she was not expecting to have the expense because the kids were supposed to be with him. But, she called him and suggested that he not get the kids for 6 weeks, he did not change his mind until she put the thought in his head.

Anywho, her ex-DH refused to pay her more money per month so she is going to take him back to court for more child support. She said that because his child support was reduced because of travel costs, she can get more money because he will now be living in the same state (no more plane tickets, rental cars, or hotel rooms her ex can claim as an expense).

She said she did the child support calculator on line and she reasons that she can get $1,600 per month from her ex based on his and her present salary. She feels like she can afford to get her own place if he pays her $1,600 per month. My friend & her children live with her sister. My friend does not pay any rent or utilities. My friend makes around $50,000 per year also. She moved with her sister in hopes of paying off her credit card bills and debt so that she would not be as dependent on her ex's child support check in case he lost his job again.

I don't know how to feel about our conversation. When I talk with my friend, sometimes it gives me a peek at my DH's BM's thought process. My first thought is that my friend is making herself as dependent on his child support check again. My second thought was that she is clocking his paycheck. She made comments like, he should not have any other expenses, so he can afford to pay me this, etc.

I know that I am biased when it comes to situations like this because of my DH's BM. I try to keep an open mind but it is hard. I try to put myself in her place but my first thought is that her ex-DH has bills just like she does. Her ex-DH is not one of my favorite people. He is a jerk & is verbally abusive to my friend. When my friend thought that her ex was going to come back to her, she did not press child support or anything. But now that he is re-married, I feel like she is trying to punish him and hoping that the more of his money that she takes, the less likely his wife will stay with him. My friend does not keep the kids away from her ex though. If anything, she is too involved in her ex-DH's life and I tell her this. She still "THINKS" like his wife and tries to tell him what to do and how to do it. That causes conflict between the two of them.

But, what do you think of this? I know that her ex has a responsibility to support his children but I feel that she puts too much thought into her ex. She is so busy trying to make his life miserable that she doesn't realize that she is making herself miserable. Her ex is in his late 50s and has re-married. My friend is in her early 40s and does not date anyone. The one guy that she tried to date broke it off telling her that she still had not let her ex go yet. My friend is constantly talking about her ex or thinking about how she can get more money from him. I think that she needs to put more energy into herself so that she can move on with her life.

[awsomalx]

Your friend is EXACTLY why this board exist. She is what every single CBM thread on this site represents. From the dependency on his money, the lack of financial responsibility on her end, the never ending intrusion into his personal life, her lack of all things reasonable in dealing with her BD are all in line with CBM syndrome.
I know she's afriend but knowing that you're dealing with a CBM in your own relationship. Have you ever thought about trying to "tactfully" describe to her what her BD has to be feeling? I know you say he's a jerk but she's a CBM and I as a Man would be a jerk towards her as well (no way i'd be cordial). If you continue to just sit back and listen as she vents (as one sided as her vents obviously are because I know she blames EVERYTHING wrong in her life on HIM) she feels vindicated and righteous in her actions and will continue as long as the kids are wards of the state. Not to bash you but your being there for her (as you must be because you know the whole story) is just the support CBM's seek to justify their outlandish behavior.

[nomoredrama]

I do allow my friend to vent to me or run her thought process by me. But I do speak up and offer her my opinion when I take exception to something she says or does. I also share with her stories of my DH's BM and I think that it has helped her somewhat. She makes a point to make sure the BD has access to his children almost anytime he requests. I also speak up and let her know when she is intruding too much her in ex'DH's personal life. We speak about my friend's dislike of his wife. We have healthy debates on issues we disagree about.

The issue of child support is something that I am torn on. I believe that the non-custodial parent should support their child(ren) through financial means. It does take money to support children. My issue with her is just how much money it takes to support the children. The cost of living in the area she resides in is VERY expensive. But I don't understand why she has not paid off her bills by now since she has been living with her sister for a year and a half with no rent or utilities to pay. I asked her about this once and she explained that she uses the child support to pay for her children's child care. But she still has her entire paycheck.

When she presented this information to me, I did not know how to respond, so I didn't. I could have given her my opinion about her thought process. We would have had a healthy debate about it. I know that she wants to get her own place but on her salary, she said she can not afford to get her own place in that area.

I do not like her ex because of how he treats her. Yes, I think that my friend has some CBM tendencies but her ex has CBD tendencies as well. And his craziness is centered around how much child support he is paying her. He feels like he should pay her $500/month instead of what he is currently paying her. But even though he does not agree with how much he is court ordered to pay, he does not have to treat her disrespectfully. He does not have to resort to name calling and yelling. He is still an adult and he speaks disrespectfully towards my friend on a regular basis (and sometimes in front of the children). That is my problem with her ex.

[destini1969]

It's unfortunate that your friend is in her 40s and still behaves immaturely, but at least she is allowing the BD to have a relationship with his children, at least for now. Now that they are in the same city/state she will be able to see BD more frequently. If she is too involved in his life from a distance, I can only imagine what him living in the same city/state would allow.

I think some BD/BM like the drama because it keeps a connection going, for the life of me, I don't understand why.

That's good that you try to discourage her negative behavior.

[nomoredrama]

Awsolmx reacted to my post exactly like my DH. I guess because men are more personally involved in BMD than women are. Not to take away from what women who are dating/married/engaged to men with BMD go thru. But my DH knows even more about my friend & her ex-DH. My DH ALWAYS takes the man's side, I don't care what the situation is, he will always have the man's back. It must be a man thing. LOL.

My friend and I have been friends since before she got married 12 years ago. I supported her when her DH walked out on her and through her divorce. And I continue to be there for her now. Women think of friendship differently than men. Most men feel like if the person is not saying something they want to hear than later for the person. My DH has threatened to school her ex-DH whenever he gets to see him next. It is almost like the battle of the sexes. I don't support everything that my friend does but I also don't feel like listening to her discussing her feelings is vindicating her behavior. I see it as an opportunity to enlighten. But I also recognize that I am biased in certain circumstances because of my DH's situation. It is those times when I am reacting emotionally that I try to step back and think before responding. KWIM??

[awsomalx]

It's not A Man Thing it's just about time MEN start supporting each other (as women have always done for each other). We really have no support system outside of Mom's and ourselves.
On the $1500 a month, that's utterly ridiculous, especially when she makes 50K (or there abouts). No way she spends $3000 a month on the kids (if you look up CS Laws, the percentage is supposed to be provided as EQUAL support from BOTH parents). That figure alone is why I say Men need to come together to get those d**n CS numbers changed.
I like you feel there is responsiblity for the BD to support the kids. The State however takes all financial responsiblity off the CP and places it all on the NCP and that is never going to set well with me. Your friend is a prime example of this and you wonder why he's hostile with her? Shyt, the State is taking what would be equal to my house note (minus the taxes) and my car note from this man. And again, I re-iterate, there is NO WAY she's spending $3k towards the kids support. Not only that, she wants to be in his business any way possible and expects/hopes he picks up the kids at a regular interval (during that time he is still responsible for ALL THE FINANCIAL SUPPORT as I'm sure whe doesn't send him any momney back when the kids are with him). On top of all that, she claims the kids on her taxes and gets that as well....................I like him, would be far from happy to deal with her (well in my case, I actually wouldn't. Just not enough "good" in me to mask my hostility and that would affect my kids, so I'd just rather not be present period).
Good Luck to Him (the BD) and I hope that once the kids are no longer wards of the state (age where he doesn't continue to have his wages slaughtered by the state) that he has some life left to enjoy. As for your friend, nothing but misery awaits her as the years go by (she's not getting any younger and I can't see a Man with any snap ever wanting to deal with such a soul). The kids grow older year by year and the State's ward over them grows shorter with each passing day. her entitlement money is not forever, but the loneliness that awaits her just may be.

[destini1969]

You are kidding right, MEN do have a support system outside of their mothers if they allow their GF/Wife/Fiance to assist in those endeavors. If men would stop thinking it's them against the world and start understanding and appreciating how it should be, "US" against the world, then things would be a lot better for that man! But as long as he has that self righteous, I don't need you mentality that relationship is doomed.

And tellit, you're right, it is a man thing! They stick together regarding certain topics, especially when it comes to women for the most part!

[nomoredrama]

I had a talk with my friend today because she made the most outrageous comment about her ex-DH. She has reasoned that he brings home about $1800 per paycheck after taxes. She feels that if he receives almost $1700 per month, plus $169 for the back child support that accrued when he lost his job, he will bring home less than $900 per pay period. She commented that if she did not take it, he would only use it on he & his wife, so the money may as well be used for she and the kids. She said that he & his wife were grown, so they could both get two jobs if they need more money.

I told my friend that I did not support her behavior. I told her that he was working and he had bills just like she did. In fact he has more bills than her because he has rent and utilities unlike her. I told her that she was starting to sound bitter and hateful and that is not how a true christian should act. She said that she and the kids are still paying for his decision to leave her and she wanted him to pay like she has for the decision he made.

I told her that if she takes him back to court and he actually has to pay her almost $1900 per month, she had better watch her back because her ex-DH may try to knock her off. I am not joking. I know that I would be angry if I was told that I had to hand over over 50% of my paycheck to someone else.

I am all for child support but you can not make me believe that she needs $1700 per month for child support. She is only doing this to punish him because he is still with his wife. She was hoping that when he told her he was moving to her state, his wife wasn't coming with him. And his wife has let it be known that she is in for the long ride. Her ex did not leave her for his new wife. Her ex met his new wife just as his divorce was being finalized 3 years ago.

I told her that I can understand why her ex would be upset. And she can prepare for things to go from bad to worse regarding his behavior. I can only pray that my friend can let her anger go. I thought that she had let her anger go but now that he is moving (doing what she asked him to do several different times), her anger seems to have come flowing back. I again can only pray for her. I do agre with Awsolmx, she will be by herself for a long time as long as she holds onto her anger. The only person that she dated since her divorce got the brunt of her anger towards her ex. He finally could not take it and told her that she was still in love with her ex, so she could not move on with him. This man was a good respectable guy who got tired of her constant bashing of her ex and her comparing him with her ex. He walked away from her and found someone else. I think that really hurt her because she received yet another rejection.

I feel bad for my friend but I think that she is doing her ex wrong. It is not her job to try to punish him for what she perceives he has done to her. It is her job to learn how to co-parent with him. I told her that if she is unable to provide for her children, then I feel that she should consider turning custody over to her children's father. I believe that her ex is trying to position himself to gain custody of his children. I don't want her to lose her children because I think that her children are her life.

[awsomalx]

Hot dawged, that was such a great post Tellit, I had to give you a Karma point
I could not agree with you more on the points and conclusions you covered. I read it aloud to Destini (she's cooking) as I couldn't believe it was coming from a woman (no offense, just rarely see eye to eye with women concerning this whole BM/BD Cp/NCP ordeal).
I wish I could exalt you 2x for that post.

[LOL]

YOU PEOPLE ARE SICK...........AND OBVIOUSLY CHEAP AND GREEDY.

[just2beme]

Go commit yourselves. LOL has called you sick, cheap, and greedy. Can a person be both cheap and greedy? LOL. That was the funniest post of the day.

[memyslfni]

Destini, I couldnt agree with you more on your last response to this post. Dh/Bf's dont have to feel like its the world against them. I just recently told my bf that any issues he has outside our home not only affects him but it affects US (his family). I can only hope that the more he heres this that he'll eventually take heed to word US.

Tellit, your being the best bud you can be to your friend, please continue to guide her in the right direction. It's only for the best interest of her children. She needs to realize thats money cant buy time. Which is more important when it comes to a father and his children.

LOL, u must be a CBM! GGRRREEEDDDDYYYY!

[LOL]

cbm sure am. And Im getting 1700 a month.

[memyslfni]

KUDOS, IF THATS YOUR ONLY INCOME... IT MUST BE CUZ U FEEL THE NEED TO BRAGGG ABOUT IT...LIKE A KID WITH HIS FIRST 20$ BILL ;D

[LOL]

No I'm not bragging. It's money to help the support the kids. It is what he can afford to pay to contribute to his offspring. We are divorced. I just personally feel a man should not be bothered by the fact they need to financially support their children. Also "the state wards over" the state technically wards over everything from marriage license's to divorce decree's to birth certificates etc. We are all subject to state and federal laws. Supporting children should be no different.